BBC Report: Can Womenomics Help Gender Equality?

BBC Report: Can Womenomics Help Gender Equality?

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

Japan is facing a double whammy: shrinking population and massive labor shortages. For some experts, the solution is simple: unleash the power of women.

Tonight on the BBC’s World Service, Jon Bithrey, host of Business Matters aired my report from Japan and we discussed the enormous challenges the country faces.

Prime Minister Abe’s government has been taking baby steps in Womenomics with some success, but in the longer term, what more needs done to change deeply entrenched cultural norms? In August, Japan’s government passed legislation mandating that Japanese companies with over 300 employees disclose their diversity statistics and goals in 2016. The Prime Minister’s ambitious target is for 30% of leadership positions in business and government to be filled by women by 2020.

What is Womenomics and why could it become a template for other Asian countries? I went to Tokyo to investigate for the BBC World Service…

Commuters Shinjuku station Tokyo Oct 2015 by Alison van Diggelen.

A version of this report aired on the BBC’s Business Matters on December 31, 2015. Listen to the BBC podcast here

Alison van Diggelen: I’m here in Tokyo to explore the promise of Womenomics, Prime Minister Abe’s plan to increase the country’s GDP by up to 15% by tapping its most underutilized resource. That is: Japanese women.

What exactly is Womenomics?

The term was coined by Kathy Matsui in a Goldman Sachs report outlining the economic potential of closing the gender gap. Japan faces a time bomb of a rapidly shrinking and ageing population; and a low female labor participation rate (although it has increased recently, many female workers work only part-time). This year, Prime Minister Abe, perhaps in desperation, is rebooting Womenomics and has set a 30% leadership goal for women in business and government.

[Atmos: Tokyo Metro announcements, doors closing, and passenger hubbub]

My first stop was the Gender Equality Bureau at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I asked Rui Matsukawa who’s Director of the Gender Mainstreaming Division: what’s the promise of Womenomics?

Government buildings Tokyo by Alison van Diggelen for BBC

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Rui Matsukawa: Womenomics’ essence is unleashing the talents of women in quality and quantity and make that help for the prosperous future of Japan. If Japan can change, that’ll be good prospects for the other countries. My conviction is: Japan will change is a very constructive way…where each individual is given the opportunity to fully express his or her own potential.

She points out that diversity is a great source of innovation.

And that’s one of Japan’s biggest challenges today.

Womenomics policy faces an uphill struggle: Japan’s cultural norms, and its male-centered, long and inflexible working hours.

I met with Elizabeth Handover, a Brit who’s lived in Japan for decades. She’s cofounder of the Women’s Leadership Development Center, in Tokyo.

Elizabeth Handover: Japan is struggling right now…some companies are still stuck in a Victorian hierarchy era…It’s that hierarchy that women get trapped in…

Alison van Diggelen: How do you think the PM’s goals will help?

Elizabeth Handover: One thing that’s really powerful in Japan is that companies don’t like to be “shamed and blamed”, so when the appalling statistics come out about how many female managers they’ve got, I think that’ll be a big influence for them to make changes.

I caught up with the former Governor of Hong Kong, Chris Patten and he shared a global perspective.

[Atmos: breakfast meeting audio]

Chris Patten Tokyo BCC interview Oct 2015, Alison van Diggelen.

Chris Patten: I think it’s a very good idea that a PM should be so determined to increase the number of women in leadership positions. It’s not just a problem in Japan… I think it’s a big issue everywhere.

van Diggelen: What do you think is the PM’s greatest challenge? Do you think it’s a societal cultural shift that needs to happen?

Patten: Some of the changes that he has to cope with are common to other societies as well, but plainly, the main issue in Japan – as elsewhere – is the attitude of men.

Yumiko Murakami OECD Tokyo by Alison van Diggelen for the BBC.

Yumiko Murakami is Head of the Tokyo Center of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. She cites Akira Matsumoto, the CEO of Calbee, a Japanese snack company, as being a male champion of diversity. She’s hopeful that the mandated release of diversity stats will spur change.

Yumiko Marakami: Japanese society is very a homogeneous society…there is a very strong cultural pressure to follow the herd.

Murakami is concerned about shrinking population and is convinced that Japan’s policy will have global implications.

Yumiko Murakami: Japan is facing this humongous time bomb – companies don’t have enough people to hire, it’s really hurting the bottom line. China is going to face the same future…Korea is exactly the same thing. If we succeed in Japan today, maximizing the talent pool, other countries they are going to get good practice policy lessons.

But some female executives in Japan feel more could be done: like addressing the childcare shortage and changing the existing tax laws, which discourage married women working full time.

[Atmos: Tokyo Metro announcements, doors closing, hubbub]

Elizabeth Hanover Aya Usui by Alison van Diggelen for BBC.

Before leaving Tokyo, I took the Metro to meet with Aya Usui, a senior consultant at Lumina Learning, a leadership training business. She’s expecting her third child and commutes 4 hours a day.

Alison van Diggelen: Are you encouraged by PM Abe’s commitment to Womenomics?

Aya Usui: To tell the truth…not really…

Alison van Diggelen: What would you like to see him do?

Aya Usui: I’d ask him to invest more money and time to develop female leadership because many females have a lot of talent and a lot of potential, but they’re not used enough…they’re killing their possibility…If we can achieve full potential it’s really a wonderful world this world becomes

That’s the promise of Womenomics: a wonderful world where everyone achieves their full potential. The world will be watching in 2016 to see if Prime Minister Abe’s shaming and blaming will work.

***

To learn more about Womenomics and gender equality, listen to the BBC Business Matters Last Podcast of 2015 and check out the Fresh Dialogues Inspiring Women Series.

Many thanks to Elizabeth Handover of Lumina Learning and fellow Scot, Lori Henderson and her team at the British Chamber of Commerce for helping facilitate the interviews in Tokyo.

BBC Dialogues: CA Drought Official’s Tips for Ag Tech Entrepreneurs

BBC Dialogues: CA Drought Official’s Tips for Ag Tech Entrepreneurs

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

California’s worse drought in decades has spurred everyone to pay close attention to their water use. Farmers are especially thirsty for water saving ideas, so it’s a sector ripe for innovative Ag Tech solutions. On July 10th, I joined Fergus Nicoll of the BBC’s Business Matters to discuss the challenges and opportunities the drought has created. The program also featured an interview I did with California State Water Resources Control Board member Dorene D’Adamo.

Check out the extended transcript of our interview below, in which D’Adamo shares some tips for Ag Tech entrepreneurs. Number one: Get your hands dirty on the farm, talk to farmers…

The conversation starts @42:30 in the BBC World Service podcast. The transcript has been edited for length and clarity.

Photo caption (above): Alison van Diggelen interviews avocado farmer and drone entrepreneur Jon Tull of Farm Solutions at the Silicon Valley AgTech Conference, May 2015)

BBC Dialogues at Fresh DialoguesFergus Nicoll: Let’s talk about drought. We’re what…three years now into this prolonged drought in California, Alison?

Alison van Diggelen: This is the 4th year now.

Fergus Nicholl: So what are new incentives that (CA Governor) Jerry Brown has come up with?

Alison van Diggelen: Last April, Jerry Brown made his historic executive order. He mandated a reduction for residential consumers: they have to reduce on average 25% of their water use. He’s carrying a big stick on this. He has the ability to fine water districts up to $10,000 a day and allow water districts to charge surcharges for people who’re not reducing. It really is biting…

Fergus Nicholl: This is being measured presumably?

Alison van Diggelen: This is being measured and in May, Californians were patting themselves on the back…it was just released a couple of weeks ago that in May we actually reduced on average, 29%. So we’re getting there, but depending on which city you look at, some are reducing by up to 40% and some are not doing their fair share, so there is still some rankling.

Fergus Nicholl: So what happens with that? Is it public naming and shaming if you don’t get to 25%?

Alison van Diggelen: Absolutely. Drought shaming is going on and basically, they’re using the price mechanism. People are going to see it on their monthly or bi-monthly water bills and they’re going to feel the pain of using too much water.

Fergus Nicholl: I told you about Alison’s interviews on Fresh Dialogues… Let’s hear from the California State Water Resources Control Board. This board reports directly to the Governor and we’re going to hear from (board member) Dorene D’Adamo.

WHY THIS DROUGHT IS DIFFERENT

Dorene D’Adamo: We’re currently in our third year of drought and it is a very serious situation. We’ve had back to back dry years and of course the soil in many areas of the state is very dry and in addition, we’ve had a very low, dismal snow pack. In fact less than 5% (of the average) snowpack.

We also have a different situation than last time we had a serious drought, which was 1977. Our State has grown in population significantly. We also have a hardened demand (for water) because we have a lot of permanent crops that have been planted (e.g. fruit and nut trees). We also have a healthy respect for the environment, so we have redirected some of our supplies to environmental protection, to protect fish and wildlife.

Alison van Diggelen: What do you say to people who complain – urban dwellers – who complain that farmers are using 80% of the (State’s) water…we’re having to cut back and not water our lawns etc.?

Dorene D’Adamo: Well, we all need to be part of the solution and without a doubt, agriculture has vastly improved its irrigation efficiency over the last decades but it’s possible for them to do more and it’s also possible for the urban sector to do more. This 80% of agriculture supply…others will say it’s 40%. The number is probably not as important as is the fact that we all have to do our fair share. Agriculture and urban dwellers can do more which is why we recently called up on implementing the Governor’s Executive Order that Californians state-wide reduce their use by 25% for urban uses.

ADVICE FOR ENTREPRENEURS

Alison van Diggelen: We’re here in Silicon Valley, and of course it’s full of entrepreneurs with lots of hot tech ideas. Are there any particular tech ideas you’ve seen today…and can you comment on drones?

Dorene D’Adamo: Now that we have this new groundwater legislation in California, local entities will be called upon to put together a groundwater sustainability plan…to determine how much is being taken out of their aquifers, going into their aquifers. The question I have for this (AgTech) group is this: What technology…satellite or drone technology can be used?

Alison van Diggelen: Were there any other technologies you saw here that you feel have potential?

Dorene D’Adamo: What we’re looking for is assistance with monitoring…groundwater, contaminants, and also monitoring (water) use. There’s so much the Silicon Valley has to offer not just in terms of monitoring but data…putting together the data and the analysis. And I would encourage this industry to be looking at water supply and water quality much in the way they have in the energy sector. We have gone a long way addressing the greenhouse gas emission targets in California, in large part because of the innovative ideas that have come from Silicon Valley. This (water) area is ripe for investment and if we saw the investment in water quality and supply that we have did in the air quality and energy sector, in years to come, we’d see a huge improvement in both areas.

Alison van Diggelen: For young entrepreneurs who have ideas…what advice would you give them for making their idea a reality?

Dorene D’Adamo: Get out on the farm, get your hands dirty…go out and meet with farmers; learn from them directly as to the challenges they face. Even when there are these smart systems (soil probes, precision irrigation etc) implemented on farms, sometimes they’re not used properly, so I think the tech industry needs to better understand the needs of the farmer and that would help them put systems in place that would be used effectively.

Read more about Tech and the CA Drought at Fresh Dialogues (From “BBC Letter from Silicon Valley” archives)

Find out more about the potential of Ag Tech here

More from the WSJ’s Ilan Brat

Malala Takes Silicon Valley Stage with Favorite Author, Khaled Hosseini

Malala Takes Silicon Valley Stage with Favorite Author, Khaled Hosseini

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

Malala Yousafzai is the youngest recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. An advocate for girls’ right to education via The Malala Fund, her name is now synonymous with courage, passion and hope after after a gunman shot her in the face; and she didn’t back down. In her short 17 years, she’s done more than most to change the world, and her remarkable life is the subject of a new documentary “He Named Me Malala” to be released in October.

On Friday, she joined her favorite author, Khaled Hosseini (of Kite Runner fame) at San Jose State University in Silicon Valley for a hard hitting conversation about Islam, education, and her dream of one day becoming Prime Minister of Pakistan. In his eloquent introduction, Hosseini described how the gunman boarded Malala’s school bus in 2012 and “shot the wrong girl.”

“Technically he shot the girl he was meant to shoot, but in every other way, he shot the wrong girl. The girl he shot at age 11 was already a fierce advocate for girls’ right to education. If the gunman thought he was going to quiet her with his bullet, then he was wrong. His victim became the youngest recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. But what he was most wrong about was the apparent belief that human beings aught to settle their differences with bullets. Malala would school him later when she said, you must not treat others with cruelty but through peace, and through dialogue and through education.” Khaled Hosseini

Here are highlights of the conversation:

On why Malala is motivated to keep speaking out

If you want to change your society, if you want to see the change, then you have to step forward to bring the change. It was my duty to speak up. Either we just had to remain silent and live in that situation of terrorism forever or fight for our rights and try to bring the change. I felt I had a mission and had to continue. There was this feeling in my mind that something can happen to me, but I thought: the Taliban are cruel, but how would they take an 11 year old girl? Malala

Malala they cannot shoot my dreams

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On Islamic religion and culture 

Cultures, traditions are not sent by God to us. They are not being written by him and saying, ‘these are the things you that you have to follow.’ We humans create them, so then we should have the right to change them…The traditions that go against basic human rights should not be protected and should be clearly denied. (For example) education is every child’s right, but the Taliban want to stop women being educated. They fear that if you allow girls to go to school, girls will become out of control. Some Pakistani scholars think girls like me are infidels, they don’t know I read the Koran.  Malala

Hosseini points out that the Koran begins with a mandate for literacy:

The first word is ‘read.’ That Islam says the Koran is against girls being educated is perverse. Hosseini

On critics who say she’s being used by the West against Islam

There’s a lot of hopelessness, tragedy (in Pakistan) They’ve seen a lot of dishonest politicians, corruption…People lose hope. It’s a small minority who are critics. Pakistan has already supported me. When I was attacked they raised the banners “I am Malala.” They were speaking out (saying) “Shame on the Taliban” which was never ever said before. And people started their activism and to speak out for education.

Keeping my courage and ambitions strong…the support from Pakistan and all over the world overcomes all this hatred… it becomes “like nothing.” I have to stay strong and believe in myself and know that what I’m doing is right: it’s for the education of girls. Malala

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Our own people are our harshest critics. Hosseini
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Malala in prayer asks for support

On the violence of her gunman

I have forgiven him. That boy, he was only 15. The terrorists did not believe in the freedom of women, they did not believe in women’s rights, to get an education… They’ve been radicalized…they need some education so they can be helped… know the real value of Islam and justice, know that Islam is not about killing. Islam is used to support Jihad. When they’re told “it’s God’s message” people will obey. Malala

On the Malala Fund & Her 10 year Goals

I’m hopeful I will have gone back to my home in Pakistan… I’m hopeful The Malala fund will have educated hundreds of thousands of girls by then – in Nigeria, in Kenya, in Jordan (for Syrian refugees), in Pakistan….I’m hopeful through your support we can achieve these goals. It’s when we all come together, we make our voices stronger…We will do it together: see that every child will be getting quality education. Malala

On Becoming the Prime Minister of Pakistan

When I met the (Pakistan) Prime Minister, I was frustrated by his ‘talk talk’ I wanted to have his power… If I get an opportunity to help my country through politics I will.  It’s good to have big dreams. Malala

More coverage of Malala’s visit to Silicon Valley

Report and video from KGO’s Cheryl Jennings

Article from Katie Nelson of the Mercury News

Article and slideshow from Vicki Thompson of the SV Business Journal

Check out Fresh Dialogues Inspiring Women Series

 

BBC Dialogues: California’s Drought and Your Lawn

BBC Dialogues: California’s Drought and Your Lawn

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

As news broke about Gov. Jerry Brown’s mandatory water restrictions in California, I joined Roger Hearing on the BBC’s Business Matters program to discuss the state’s historic drought and the governor’s slow response.

“We are standing on dry grass, and we should be standing on five feet of snow,” Mr. Brown said. “We are in an historic drought… a new era…The idea of your nice little green lawn getting watered every day, those days are past.”

Although the governor’s mandate calls for a 25% water use reduction, it probably won’t go into effect until June and will barely impact the farming community, which accounts for 80% of the state’s water use (almond farmers alone use 10%). According to a report by Lisa Krieger, the CA Department of Water Resources confirms that agriculture water use has already been heavily restricted, however the new rules will not restrict groundwater pumping.

Experts at NPR’s KQED say the most worrying part is that this crisis is a glimpse of the future: the low rainfall and high temperatures we’ve experienced in the last four years are now the “new normal,” thanks to climate change.

Here’s an extract of our discussion that starts at 29:00 in the BBC podcast:

Hearing: We know California is sunny…but it’s rather too sunny and not quite rainy enough…and for the first time in the state’s history you have mandatory water restrictions. How does it affect your life and what’s going on there?

van Diggelen: Yes, this is big news here. Governor Brown went up into the Sierra this morning and he stood where normally there would be about five foot of snow and he was on grass. It was such a powerful image to relay to people the extent of the problem: 2013 was the driest on record in the state, 2014 was the warmest. It was like a one-two punch for the environment and finally he’s getting round to doing something. A lot of people, myself included, are asking: Why didn’t you start something a year ago? We saw this coming…(A recent San Jose Mercury News editorial describes Brown’s action to date as “lame.”)

Hearing: What’s it actually look like? Do you notice the lakes ebbing away, the rivers drying up?

California_Drought_Dry_Riverbed_Photo: Wikimediavan Diggelen: There are a lot of reservoirs in the south San Francisco Bay area that are completely dry or close to being dry. A lot of locals are letting their grass go brown. There are a lot of visible ways of seeing this, however you’re also seeing beautiful verdant grass on golf courses, so you could say there is a cover up going on. This is long overdue, there really needed to have been mandates before this, but at least there is something happening now. Gov. Brown is calling for reduction in water use of 25% for the next year.

Hearing: But he can’t make rain. Is there any sign of it coming?

van Diggelen: Our rainy season is almost over. We’re now in April and the majority of our rain falls between September and March, so it’s not looking likely. We may get one or two light showers, but the experts are saying the window of opportunity for a big storm has passed.

Hearing: It’s going to be a long hot summer.

***

Toward the end of the program (at 48:45 in the podcast), Don McLean fans will be interested to learn that we discussed the “American Pie” manuscript, which goes to auction on April 7th. I couldn’t help remarking how relevant the classic contemporary song is to California today:

“I drove my Chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry.”

Sadly, as climate change progresses, dry levees, lakes and rivers are going to be a widespread sight in California. Indeed, that and brown lawns are going to become “the new normal.”

So bye-bye verdant green lawns…

It’s been nice knowing you.

Heidi Roizen: Entrepreneurship, Mentors & Relationships

Heidi Roizen: Entrepreneurship, Mentors & Relationships

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

Heidi Roizen has been on both sides of the entrepreneur funding divide, so her advice for aspiring entrepreneurs is particularly potent. She’s an operating partner at venture capitalists DFJ, a lecturer in entrepreneurship at Stanford University and a successful Silicon Valley entrepreneur. Last month, I interviewed Roizen at the Commonwealth Club, Silicon Valley. That interview led to many more questions about what it takes to succeed, especially the need to build meaningful relationships. Here’s our deeper exploration:

van Diggelen: You teach entrepreneurship at Stanford University: What are the top 5 lessons for being a successful entrepreneur?

Roizen: When we study and meet with successful entrepreneurs, while each has a different path to success, they all exhibit similar mindsets.  For one, they seem to go through life looking at problems as things for which there can be a solution — i.e. they do not accept the status quo, no matter how ingrained.  Second, they are not afraid to iterate (or ‘fail’, i.e. learn from a mistake, course correct, and move on.)   They tend to be tenacious, that is, they view the failures along the way as necessary steps in getting to success — not as indicators that they should stop.  They tend to be very good at telling their stories, building a narrative about the problem, the solution, and what it takes to get there.  Finally, successful entrepreneurs tend to know the importance of finding and motivating awesome people to join them in their journey.

van Diggelen:  Talk about the importance of networks and the do’s and don’ts of finding and being a good mentor.

Heidi Roizen Roizen: Let me answer this by starting at the 100,000 foot level.  I’ve done a lot of reading about human happiness and I boil the answer down to having meaningful work and meaningful relationships.  I believe that if you can do meaningful work with others you build even more meaningful relationships.  I hate the word “network” as it almost has a negative connotation — none of us want to be cornered by a ‘networker’ at an industry cocktail party!  But, instead I think of ‘building a network’ as a lifelong process of forming relationships with people, finding ‘fellow travelers’ who may share a passion for the same problem that needs to be solved, a skillset that is complementary but appreciated, someone with good common sense to bounce ideas off of — whatever brings value and meaning to each of us in a human connection.  For me, those people and those relationships — new and old — help me to keep learning and keep finding new opportunities for work, for growth, for meaning. 

As for finding and being a mentor, my main piece of advice, for either the mentor or the mentee, is the relationship only works if there are shared values/ethics, and if there is something meaningful to work on together.  That is why I personally believe asking someone to simply ‘be my mentor’ is far less productive than finding for example someone to work for who you can also see as becoming your mentor.

van Diggelen: What do you mean by “living a relationship driven life” versus “a transaction driven life”? Can you give some examples?

Roizen: I’m a big believer in leading a relationship-driven life and I’ve blogged about it here.  In short, if you believe what I said above about meaningful relationships being the key to happiness (a big ask I know!)  then it makes sense that every transaction in which there are one or more others involved becomes an opportunity to build a relationship.  From my life experience, I run into the same people working in this industry over and over and over, so the quality of every transaction is important because it builds a relationship that transcends any individual transaction. 

In business school, we learned that a negotiation should be viewed as ‘an opportunity to find the maximal intersection of mutual need.’  I love this concept, instead of a transaction being ‘zero sum’, we can actually achieve a better result for both of us by putting our two heads together to solve both our problems.

van Diggelen: What’s been your hardest challenge as an entrepreneur and how did you overcome it?

Roizen: Almost running out of money many times.  Microsoft entering our market.  Shipping a product with a lot of bugs.  Emotional disagreements with cofounders and key contributors.  In other words, there really is no hardest challenge in entrepreneurship, rather there are a whole series of ‘near-death’ experiences.  They key is to not let them become ‘death’ experiences!  There’s no overcoming, just pushing through, getting back up, learning from your mistakes, mending fences, and moving on.  And if you fail in the big picture and your company ends up going out of business, do it with empathy and honor and in Silicon Valley, you will usually get another at-bat.

van Diggelen: How do you see Silicon Valley changing in the next 5-10 years?

Roizen: I think what makes Silicon Valley so special will continue to fuel our next 5-10 and many more years.  I do think the valley is changing in a few ways.  For one, we are spreading our attention from ‘the next cool iPhone app’ to solving some of the world’s bigger problems, which I find very exciting and frankly more fulfilling.  We are seeing technology have a far greater impact on those diverse big problems — from health to food to energy.  I am really excited to see what the next 20 years brings about!

Explore more Inspiring Women at Fresh Dialogues

Kiva cofounder, Jessica Jackley: 3 Startup Tips for Entrepreneurs

Diane von Furstenberg: Why Fear is Not an Option

Cisco’s CTO Padmasree Warrior: 7 Secrets of Success

BBC Dialogues: Koch Brothers vs Tom Steyer on Climate Change

BBC Dialogues: Koch Brothers vs Tom Steyer on Climate Change

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

News that the Koch Brothers are planning to raise almost a billion dollars in the run up to the 2016 Presidential election is sending shock waves through U.S. politics. The Kochs are closely linked to the Heartland Institute, an organization described by the BBC’s former environment correspondent, Richard Black as follows:

To itself, it’s a think-tank; to critics, it’s a lobby group, paid to oppose regulation on a number of fronts – including climate change. It’s probably most notable (or notorious) for holding an annual “climate-sceptic” conference in Washington DC.

On the other side of the climate arena is Tom Steyer, a self-made billionaire who launched Next Gen Climate, a Super PAC with the following mission:

“Working at every level, we are committed to supporting candidates, elected officials and policymakers across the country that will take bold action on climate change—and to exposing those who deny reality and cater to special interests.”

Steyer put $74 Million into the 2014 elections,  targeting Republican candidates who reject climate science.

 

BBC Business Matters features Alison van Diggelen, Feb 2014Last week, I joined Roger Hearing, host of BBC’s Business Matters to discuss the influence of big money in US politics and the Koch brothers in particular. Hearing talked to Andy Kroll a senior writer at Mother Jones about his insightful article, “The Koch Brothers Raised $249 Million at Their Latest Donor Summit” (@26:30 on the BBC podcast).

Here is a transcript of our conversation. It has been edited for clarity (starts @35:00 above, 32:00 on the BBC podcast)

Roger Hearing: What do you think is the effect of money in this scale – we’re talking a pretty massive scale – on US politics?

Alison van Diggelen: It is massive and it seems to be growing. It’s a little bit scary. I can assure you, because I cover climate change, I’m very aware of the Koch brothers. They’re secretly funding climate denial, basically a climate denial machine

Hearing: Can you explain that?

van Diggelen: They have been funding various foundations with wonderful names that you’d think you would get behind, like the Heartland Institute. But what the Heartland Institute spends most of its time doing is pulling apart real scientists’ studies and reports; and trying to undermine them….scientist by scientist, report by report, trying to undermine the credibility of the scientist or the report.

Hearing: I guess they say they’re putting their money behind different views, airing views that are perhaps not mainstream?

van Diggelen: That’s the interesting thing. There’s a huge difference between what people think about climate change in America versus in Europe and the rest of the world. I think, for the rest of the world, it’s a done deal, it’s an accepted truth. But here an America, and I think a lot of people would agree with me on this, the Koch brothers’ machine of climate denial has helped muddy the waters so a lot of people aren’t quite sure, especially if you look at Republican candidates, a lot of them talk about “the science isn’t a hard fact.” They’re wary of actually admitting that there is such a thing as global warming going on.

Hearing: Alison, are there any moves to…we heard that  there was a case some time back going to the Supreme Court…where there was an attempt to try to clear the position as far as money and politics were concerned. Is there any renewed attempt, ahead of the 2016 election to try to restrict in any way how much money can be put into the campaign?

van Diggelen: Not that I’m aware of. There seems to be the dominance of the 1% here in the US. They’re influencing what is happening in the US in four ways: through policy, courtroom decisions, TV ads, and the education system. They seem to be unfettered in their ability. Perhaps the court case you were referring to is Citizens United? But that effectively gave more power to these political action committees and allowed them to create dark money groups where they’re not actually declaring where the money is coming from. It’s all rather doom and gloom.

Hearing: We talked there about the Koch brothers, and they tend to be backing Republican candidates…but where you are, around Silicon Valley there are a large number of very wealthy individuals who have quite a liberal outlook and could deploy their money there. Similarly people in Hollywood. Does that happen too?

van Diggelen: It is happening. The person of note is Tom Steyer. He’s a San Francisco, former money man, who’s now putting a lot of his millions into an organization called NextGen Climate. They are getting involved in politics and they are targeting mostly Republican candidates, those that are rejecting climate science. I’m all in favor of that: exposing these people with their crazy science ideas

Hearing: But that’s big money too…

van Diggelen: I agree. That is big money but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what the Koch brothers are able to leverage from the other side. Tom Steyer has the science behind him and to be honest, it’s shameful that big money from the Koch brothers is being used to fund this anti-science and impact not just America, but the rest of the planet

Hearing: Although the people you’re talking about are trying to put big money in the other side.

van Diggelen: Yes, but I think they’re just trying to make things clear. Science is science. They’re trying to expose the truth of the science and the lies of the anti-science.

Hearing: We’ll leave the argument there. It’s an interesting one…

More from the BBC’s Richard Black story:

“The Heartland Institute is largely behind the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), a project that purports to mirror the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) by producing reports downplaying the extent of global warming as well as the involvement of greenhouse gas emissions in producing it.”

Read more from Coral Davenport in the New York Times re a January 2015 US Poll on Climate Change

“Although the poll found that climate change was not a top issue in determining a person’s vote, a candidate’s position on climate change influences how a person will vote. For example, 67 percent of respondents, including 48 percent of Republicans and 72 percent of independents, said they were less likely to vote for a candidate who said that human-caused climate change is a hoax.”

Correction: I mistakenly called the Heartland Institute, the Heritage Foundation during the interview. The transcript has been adjusted to correct this error. The Koch brothers are known to be contributors to the Heartland Institute, via their family foundations, as verified by the Center for Media and Democracy.